The Homophobic Hip Hop Question

Sunday the 15th of April I recorded an interview with two men of African Decent on issues including, Perceptions of Manhood, Definitions of Warrior-hood, and the Weight of Brotherhood. Below is a partial transcription of an interview with singer song writer Nhojj; www.Nhojj.com .
This was done in January of 2007. It was this broadcast that started this "Expanding Roundtable" I’m doing on the radio shows I do.
Joining us in April was Hip Hop artist Baron; www.baronartist.com.

This is part of an Interview with singer song writer NHOJJ from January of 2007.


============ Fighting For Love (A Warriors Song) ================

Pedro: Your most recent CD is called "Someday Peace Love and Freedom."
You have a voice that can hit notes that only bats can hear. It’s phenomenal.
And on the song More Love what I liked about that song was that all different kind s of love
There is the romantic aspect but there is also the spiritual dimension.

NHOJJ: I think at the core of a lot of the problems we have; racism, homophobiais that we kind of get caught up in our own world, our own spaces, are own experiences, and we just forget to reach out to people, who are different, who look different. And realize that the difference may be superficial and at the core of things we are the same. There is something at the core of it all.

PEDRO: That’s something you explore in your most recent CD "Someday; Peace Love and Freedom." On the CD you’re a homeless person, and in another song
you’re a warrior. But what are you fighting?
Klingons? No!
Ignorance is the enemy.
What other enemies have you?

NHOJJ: "My enemy is hate. I’m fighting for love."

PEDRO: You’re fighting for love. The issue of warrior hood is kind of tricky, especially for progressives although you had people like Audrey Lourd who described her self as a warrior; "A warrior Poet." And in the Punk Rock scene which I’m in (skinheads especially) the concept of being a warrior and warrior hood is a big deal. As well as singing songs about drinking and fighting and the job. And bring that up in your CD had me thinking, "I haven’t heard this (from a gay guy) before!" How did this song come to you?

NHOJJ: I had the music and I was listening to the music and the like most things the words just started coming. It just kind of flows. And it kind of blew me away.
And when I sing it I see some people react to it. It starts off with "I am a warrior…" and people go like, "Wait a minuet. We thought you were the love guy." And then I get to the line, "I’m fighting for love."

PEDRO: There’s a distinction between being a solider and being a warrior.
When people go into battle more often then not there doing it out of love for some body. And that’s something a lot of people don’t understand. If you’re just taking orders and doing what somebody tells you to do then you’re going to end up doing evil terrible things. The Nazis are the perfect example, "I was just following orders." But for me the definition of warrior hood is someone who is being of service to something greater. You grew up in Guiana and Trinidad till age 18.
When did you realize you were Gay?

NHOJJ: Well they started calling me names when I was a kid in Guiana so I guess that began to clue something in.
Pedro: Yea. You don’t know what sexuality is when you’re a little kid.

NHOJJ: Exactly. You just do what you do and say what you say and people react in there own ways.

Pedro: Appropriately or not. Homophobia in the Caribbean is something we have addressed on Out-FM before. And I have on my show in New Jersey. I interviewed a performer named King Django. He travels to Jamaica a lot and he told me when he would talk to some old timers they explained that, back in the day if they found out if someone was Gay they would kill the guy, kill his family, burn down there house. If they had a dog they would kill the dog. Folks listening to this are probably thinking, "Wow! Things have really improved! They only kill the Gay guy now." And I agree. But hey, we can all do better. There’s always room for improvement. The thing is that, homophobia is now ingrained. In Britain they decimalized sodomy in the 1990’s but they were the ones who introduced the idea that being Gay is bad. So when they decriminalized it there were protests all over the Caribbean. People were saying that this was a form of neo colonialism. They (England) was imposing there secular values.

NHOJJ: They don’t need the laws anymore.

Pedro: Exactly. The contamination is complete. There have been protests about homophobic Jamaican artists and this attitude is coming back with the banning of homophobic artists. "You’re just picking on black Jamaican artists." And there right. There not focusing on white homophobic artists in the U.S. The issue I want to bring up is instead of banning them is it possible to develop a relationship with homophobic artists?

NHOJJ: Well I haven’t. It is easy to ban them. And I understand. The lyrics are very hurt-full. And a lot of harm is done when people listen to lyrics and they dance and that message seeps in. Um…But yea. Listening to the story you told me, (Laughs) you have to tell the story! (Laughs)

Pedro: Oh! "The story!" Ok I have a my Space page, www.myspace.com/generationq, and the long version of the story is on the BLOG. I’m just going to give you the short version. Um… OK. A few years back I was hanging out with some of my boys; some of the local Skinheads.And they had told me about a band called Storm Watch. And one of them goes, "Pedro! We’ve got the live version of ‘Stay in the Closet.’ You gotta hear this. You can actually feel the hatred!"So they put it on for me.
And this is the song.
"Stay in the closet,
Because it's safer in there.
Stay in the closet
Cause we don't fight fair.
Stay in the closet stay away from me.
Stay in the closet for humanity."
And at the end the lead singer Jeff roars to the crowed, "Bring it on home boys!" And you could hear hundreds of testosterone laden voices sing out,
"Fag Bashing In The U.S.A.!
Fag Bashing In The U.S.A.!
Fag Bashing In The U.S.A.!
Fag Bashing In The U. S. A.!!!"
It was amazing.
A couple of months later while hanging out at a house where a basement show was taking place a 6'3" 190 lb Skin known at the time as Scarhead walks in. I wondered for a moment what he was going to look like once he hit puberty. Scarhead sees me and says, "Pedro Storm Watch is coming!"
I respond with "OK."
He says, "No Seriously!"
I say "I believe you!"
I thought fine. I’m finally going to meet Jeff Stormwatch.
And he was hilarious. We hit it off immediately. He had no idea that I was Gay. At one point he puts his arm across my shoulder and says to every one in the room, "This is the man! This is the man right here!"
All the skins who know me look on with beer bottles in the hands, and grins on there faces and nod there heads in agreement. "Yea Pedro's the man." Because they knew I was Gay and Jeff did not and they thought this was funny as hell.
Eventually Jeff found out and I was at The Storm Watch farewell/reunion show. They were reuniting to end forever. And they were amazing! They never sounded better and Jeff looked possessed. And then about a half hour into there set I heard the intro to the most requested song of the night; Stay In the Closet." Seemed every body wanted to hear it. Guys were going "Yea!" and then the band stops and Jeff roars out, "Were just teasing!" and they go into another song.
Now, is the relationship I had with Jeff responsible for there not singing that song? I can’t say but I have been told that my being "out" has had a positive effect on the local scene. And so I’m thinking, is it possible to have a relationship with Buju Banton? Is it possible to have a constructive respectful relationship with homophobic artists? Is it possible to put out a compilation or to put out a single with an Out Gay Dance Hall singer and Buju Banton trading insults and praises is that possible?

NHOJJ: I don’t know. I’m curious to find out because actually with my next project tentatively titled "In the Life" and I really want to basically come out as a Gay artist.

Pedro: As if you haven’t done that being on this show!

NHOJJ: (laughs) exactly!

Pedro: It’s Ok it’s just you and me here. No ones listening. So the new CD is to be called "In the Life."

NHOJJ: I just really want to come out. Because there is nothing musically on the CD’s (so far) that are really clear about who I am. And I really want to say that and I want to market it to straight people. I’m curious to see what the reaction is. And yea…You’ll find out. I’ll come back and let you know. (Laughs).

Pedro: Please! Yes, because the role that artists play has been to transport the history and the experience. And artists cross bridges that most activists can’t. And I think that what you have been doing already has produced positive consequences. And we’re going to continue this discussion on art, activism and warrior-hood; How to be a warrior for Peace, how to be a warrior against ignorance. How to be a warrior against homelessness, things like that.
www.nhojj.com

And the discussion did continue.
On April 15th 02007 I Nhojj returned and I invited a Out Hip Hop artist named Baron.

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Pedro: I saw a great documentary on PBS called "Beyond Beats and Rhymes." And it’s a critique of Hip Hop by a straight Black man who loves Hip Hop but was concerned by the homophobia and sexism he finds in it. He was talking to people like Fifty Cent; really big name rappers and when he tried to he bring up the issue of homophobia… well, he tried. One of these men actually got up and walked out of the room. He could not talk about it. Busta Rhymes! Whom I think is great. I love his stuff. But he could not talk about it. He had to walk out of the room. What is that about? Enlighten me.

Nhojj: Well we were just reading a magazine and they had a list of suspect D.L. rappers and a lot of the guys you talk about and we hear; Busta Rhymes for one was on the list. And Baron has a really cool theory.

Baron: Well it’s a small theory but it’s not profitable. It’s not profitable to be an Out homosexual artist. So until we find a way that it’s profitable… Because that’s the base line of Hip Hop; they say it’s the music but it’s the money. So until there’s responsibility around it the conversation about D.L. will continue. Because of course there are homosexual Hip Hop artists, of course.

Pedro: I’m in the Punk Rock scene. And when the first smaller labels were bought up by major labels they were criticized for being sellouts. Bands that sighed were called sellouts. "This is not Punk Rock. Signing to a major record label is Not Punk Rock." Meanwhile in Hip Hop when these small independent Hip Hop labels were being bought up by major record companies that’s when it stopped being conscious and positive and you started seeing Gang banging and excuse my language bitches and Hoes in thongs on the videos. And Jesse Jackson and all these major black leaders never once said "This is bad. We are losing our culture. This is our culture and it’s being bought up by corporations."

Baron: But then yes this is our culture then this is our culture that’s projecting these images. You can blame the people that pay it but if you’re doing it you’re self, then you should blame yourself for it. If you’re doing it for the dollar…

Pedro: Yea, but what if you’re not going to get sighed? In the documentary "Beyond Beats and Rhymes" one young man did a rhyme that was brilliant and political and smart and positive. And when the man doing the documentary asked "Why don’t you do that? (Instead of Rapping about killing other Black men.) the guy said, "They don’t want to hear that shit."

Baron: But who is that "they?"

Pedro: They are the record heads who run the record labels.

Baron: And "they" are the people who are buying it.

Nhojj: I think there are a lot of people who are buying it and I think there is a market for it. There catering to a market.

Pedro: I agree with that. Yes.

Nhojj: So I think some how you need to change what the ideal is. I think that’s what the ideal is;
a strong, macho, what ever the words are. "I get a lot of women, I get a lot of money." It’s an ideal in our society. And I think Hip Hop just is kind of a tool to create that fantasy. It’s a fantasy.


Pedro: I publish a zine called Boots and Roots. It’s a Punk Rock Zine. And the theme for the next issue was inspired by a friend of mine and its "Family, Unity, Strength, Music and Never Being Alone Again." So those are our Punk Rock Values. We’re all in this together. But I found myself thinking, "How am I going to write about strength for this zine? So I looked up strength, I Googled Strength! And do you know what Tarot cards are? The Image of strength in the tarot is a lion and women or a lion and a child. That’s strength. It was one of the four cardinal virtues. And what did that mean by strength? They weren’t referring to physical strength. They were referring to spiritual strength: fortitude, the thing inside you that keeps you going no matter what tries to stop you. And I thought, "That’s Punk Rock!" So what is strength in the Hip Hop World? What does strength mean there?

Nhojj: I think there are almost two Hip Hop Worlds. There’s the older, kind of more grounded one that grew up with Hip Hop when it was under ground and I think for them strength was… Um…

Baron: Strength was in the expression. There wasn’t a voice of the inner city at that time when Hip Hop came into play. So it was like "Thank God I’ve got some where to express my political views, what’s happening to me socially … um…

Nhojj: Strength was in the expression; stating your truth.

Pedro: It’s like a jungle sometimes. It makes me wonder, how I keep, from going under."
(Laughter from every one.)

Pedro: That was strength!!! And it’s still a classic!

Nhojj: Then you have the other Hip Hop World which strength is how many women you can get,
how many people you kill, how much time you spent in jail.
After this we move on to discuss issues of warrior-hood, manhood, and men wanting to love each other regardless of weather we are Gay or Straight.

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We moved on to other issues.
Next time the issue of men loving each other.